[Mccoypottery-talk] the list

[lisa a]

I have watched this discussion with great interest. It seems that although 
there are many viewpoints about the entire enterprise of non-vintage jar 
sales, that barn-burner is off-topic. The relevant conflict within this 
thread where we could make progress seems to be semantics.

I do share the objection to the use of the term "reproduction" in regard to 
any contemporary jar that uses anything other than the original molds on the 
grounds of inaccuracy. If I am selling a new purple cow jar made from the 
original mold, I am selling a reproduction. If I am selling a new mammy jar 
made from my artistic interpretation or expression or own casting of the 
original jar, I am not selling a reproduction. I am selling something that 
can be described as "inspired by." This is similar to music CDs that large 
media conglomerates release to capitalize on the popularity of one of their 
movies. They release a soundtrack (which contains music that was truly in 
the motion picture) and a companion item (which contains music in the style 
or subject of the motion picture) and label it "music inspired by the motion 
picture." It's similar, but it's not authentic.

I think there are a number of opportunities for each of these listings in 
this store to disclose, educate, elevate, and assure buyers, sellers, and 
vintage-only collectors. Showing the stamp every time is a start and should 
be reflexive (every jar should have a picture of the bottom, IMO). Including 
a tidbit *within the listing* on how to tell the vintage jar from this jar 
and from the true fakes (such as "Brush never labeled jars Brush-McCoy -- 
it's a dead giveaway the jar is not vintage or Brush") would be helpful.

I would like to add that I was massively ripped off my first week on eBay 
and only through a series of skilled questions was I able to leave the fake 
peddler no other option than a complete refund, including return shipping. I 
also would like to add that I was recently massively ripped off by a vintage 
peddler who publicly lied about the condition of the jar, privately berated 
me, and then publicly like that I tried to back out of the sale -- my only 
negative feedback on eBay, and it's a lie. So ethically, the fake peddler 
actually did right when I reported I was unsatisfied. The obvious 
counterargument is that the fake peddler has more to lose by being exposed, 
but my badly made point is that the fact that the jar is vintage does not 
automatically make the transaction morally superior. Both sellers lied to 
the entire eBay community.

As for posting information about identity and labeling sellers as fake 
peddlers, please be careful to avoid libel. It is not wise to post e-mail 
threads because a privacy violation, though ludicrous, could successfully be 
argued. The extent to which one can proceed with minimal worry would be to 
list many responses to the listing of the item with the group heading of 
"Responses from the eBay Community" -- including thumbs up and thumbs down 
in equal numbers.

For instance:
"You have killed our business model and I will hunt you down like the lame 
dog that you are!" -- kay's_faulty_memories
"I always wondered how to tell vintage from new. Thanks!" -- ebaynewbie

(Retain the original e-mails in perpetuity.)


###




----Original Message Follows----
From: Jennifer Smith <capriherb@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: mccoypottery-talk@lists.mccoypottery.com
To: mccoypottery-talk@lists.mccoypottery.com
Subject: RE: [Mccoypottery-talk] the list
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:43:06 -0500

Do you also get letters and emails from collectors wanting to know why those
Beleek fakes were done by Rookwood, Owens, Weller, AND McCoy?  And just
think McCoy and Owens didn't even bother to sign their fakes.  And yes they
were fakes as they were copied exactly from the Beleek or Rookwood (again
copies or fakes one could say) pieces....
I think it's just all relevant. IF a McCoy collector can't read the bottom
of a pot that is clearly marked something other than McCoy then maybe they
need to be collecting Pyrex or FireKing.
Sorry, but that argument just doesn't fly with me.  If Kevin is marking his
stuff appropriately and using his own artistic license on the mold, then NO
collector could ever be confused, unless of course they are just so
disinterested in their collection that they don't take the time to educate
themselves.
Just because you are financially able and willing to spend several hundred
dollars on a jar, does it mean that it can't be reproduced inexpensively for
those who can't afford it?
After all, it really should be a compliment to the pottery factories that
their molds are so desirable after all these years that someone is
reproducing them.
Again, not marked correctly, not attributed correctly...fake and wrong.  New
and marked appropriately, reproduction and in my book totally acceptable and
even possibly bringing new collectors into the field to collect the "real"
thing.
Okay... I won't go on...:P)
Friends?

-----Original Message-----
From: mccoypottery-talk-admin@lists.mccoypottery.com
[mailto:mccoypottery-talk-admin@lists.mccoypottery.com]On Behalf Of
McQuita@aol.com
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 8:32 PM
To: mccoypottery-talk@lists.mccoypottery.com
Subject: Re: [Mccoypottery-talk] the list




In a message dated 2/14/2005 8:31:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
capriherb@earthlink.net writes:

There  are molds from Phoenix from the 1800's which were used by McKee in
the
early 1900's, then Kemple in the 50's and 60's, then Wheaton in the  60's
and
then Westmoreland through the 80's and are now being used by  Moser, Boyd
and
Fenton.


that's not something I'm concerned with...I'm concerned with the many many
letters, e-mails i get from confused McCoy collectors.





http://www.quita.net


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
To be removed from the list, send email to
mccoypottery-talk-request@mccoypottery.com
with the word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message.

You can also unsubscribe on line at: http://lists.mccoypottery.com



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be removed from the list, send email to 
mccoypottery-talk-request@mccoypottery.com
with the word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message.

You can also unsubscribe on line at: http://lists.mccoypottery.com

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/